Talk:2020 24 Hours of Le Mans

Female teams

Games of the world: Why have you reverted my modification? The source mentions "mid-1970s", which is not exact and it was in fact 1977 when there was more then one all female team at Le Mans. The source is Wikipedia itself and its sources...— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gdsotirov (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia cannot source itself. Although I appreciate you tried to be exact, you cannot do this as the references do not support the fact, even if it is logically obvious to you and me. Games of the world (talk) 21:13, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

The pages I linked have their references Games of the world. I really do not understand why you continue saying that "the references do not support the fact". On both 1977 24 Hours of Le Mans and All women's teams at Le Mans (pages that I linked) the fact could be checked - the last year when there was more than one all females team was 1977. Sorry, but mid-1970 from the cited article speaks nothing to me.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gdsotirov (talk • contribs)

The 1977 article only demonstrates that there was more than one team in 1977. It does not prove anything about the period from then until now. The women's teams' article does show these teams, but most of it is unsourced. We cannot use Wikipedia itself as a source. Also given the fact that there have been quite a few all-women teams in the history of the event, I even wonder whether this "first time since" is even worth mentioning. Did this aspect receive significant coverage? It was hardly unique. On a side note, can you please sign your posts?Tvx1 13:45, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Here's my signed (and last) post... I really did not expect clarifying a fact to become such a problem. If an external source with "significant coverage" is necessary eventually it could be found if searched for. Anyway, I'm bailing out from this talk, because I see no point anymore in trying to improve the article. Georgi D. Sotirov (talk) 17:29, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Well we have autosport and Yahoo, both proper outside sources so we can now revert my revert and include the fact using those sources. Games of the world (talk) 15:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2020 24 Hours of Le Mans/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: SSSB (talk · contribs) 09:50, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): } b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

General comments (for benefit of reviewer)

Extended content

Criteria 6 All images are fine in terms of relevance and appropriate captions. SSSB (talk) 10:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Criteria 2 Earwig's copyvio gives a couple of false positives, (~70% similarity) but this is simply due to the listing of names. A few other sources had high %s, but this is due to direct quotes, so neither of these are points of concern. SSSB (talk) 10:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Criteria 5 Looking at talk page and main page history, the it is clearly stable. SSSB (talk) 10:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Criteria 1 There are several lists, in table format. None of these are best expressed as prose. None violate WP:NOT. All are of encylopedic relevance to the subject. Therefore Mos on list incorpartion is satisfied. Mos for layout is satisfied. SSSB (talk) 10:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC) MoS for fiction is N/A. MoS for lead is satisfied. Prose check for lead is complete, pending one required change specified below. Lead passes MoS for word choice. SSSB (talk) 11:31, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Prose check complete, waiting for a couple of changes. SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC) Criteria 3 Hits all major aspects, no tangents. SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC) Criteria 4 No concerns with neutrality. SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Bold changes made by reviewer

Feel free to revert and then discuss if you disagree.

• In the image caption in the practice section I specified that it is Pilet who is pictured (Special:Diff/1031390098).
  SSSB (talk) 10:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
• Changed "at Le Mans" to "in Le Mans" in the lead. (Special:Diff/1031395477)
  SSSB (talk) 11:31, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
• Capltilisation error in warm-up section (Special:Diff/1031568572). Dutch capitlisation convention is not to capitlise "der" or "van" (unless the begining of a sentence) in names. (Rather confusing, the Belgian language does capitilise these, despite the words being the same and having the same meaning in the near identical languages of Dutch and Flemish, it's like they want to trip us up! *eye roll emoji*)
  SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Questions/points to be adressed by nominator

Necessary for promotion

Lead

• "and was held behind closed doors because of the COVID-19 pandemic forcing its postponement from June to September." - this sounds like it was postponed so it could be held behind closed doors, rather than the postponment being a seperate consequence of the pandemic. No better wording came to me instantly, but if I think of something, I'll suggest it.
  SSSB (talk) 11:31, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Rewritten MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Background

• from 13 to 14 June, but because of the COVID-19 pandemic leading France - but is WP:EDITORIAL word. You can probably just remove this.
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• The ACO wanted to establish new dates for the race as soon as French officials imposed the lockdown; it did not want to hold it late in the year because of daylight and weather conditions and had to take global travel limitations into account. - The ACO are an organisation, shouldn't they be refered to as "they", not "it"? Also missing a "they" after "weather conditions and". (Unnecessary for pass) but I would re-word that sentece to "The ACO wanted to establish new dates for the race as soon as French officials imposed the lockdown; they wanted to avoid the shorter daylight hours and poor weather that occured later in the year, and had to take global travel limitations into account." to avoid repeating "they".
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• The paddock was limited to a maximum of 5,000 individual - "paddock" is a WP:JARGON term.
  • Changed MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Testing

• The ACO cancelled it because of changes to the international motor racing calendar compressing schedules. - the wording here makes the sentence a little confusing, I had to read it twice to make sense of it. Perhaps, "The ACO cancelled it because of the compression of international motor racing schedules."
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• It did not want to put excessive strain on - same as the background section.
  SSSB (talk) 15:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Rewritten MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Warm up

• Rain fell early in the morning, meaning most teams were reluctant to send their cars onto the circuit. - I think it's worth clarifying why rain would make teams reluctant. In a non-racing content, rain just means you drive more cautiously, but it doesn't make you reluctant. Something like "Rain fell early in the morning, the resultant tricky conditions meaning most teams were reluctant to send their cars onto the circuit."
  SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Reworded MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Start and opening hours

• briefly passed Conway through turn one. However, Conway retained the lead by breaking later into Dunlop turn. - "However" is an WP:EDITORIAL word to watch. You can probably just remove it and leave the rest of the sentence as is.
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• On 20 minutes, - I don't think this follows the rules of syntax. Either, "At 14:50" (article identifies that the race started at 14:30, routine calculations are not considered WP:OR), or "20 minutes in" work.
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• hit the outside tyre barrier backwards into the turn. - this wording is slightly confusing. Perhaps "went backwards into the outside tyre barrier", or "backed into outside tyre barrier".
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• conclusion of the fourth hour by making a pit stop during a slow zone procedure. - what's a slow zone procedure? And why was the procedure activited? The first point can probably be adressed in a footnote or wikilink.
  SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Done both MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Sunset to night

• As the safety cars were recalled, - plural? Just read the source. It may be worth clarifing the three safety car sysytem in a footnote to avoid confusion.
  • Added MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Bird ceded...when he picked up a right-rear puncture on the Mulsanne Straight and drove slowly to the pit lane where it moved into the garage for an inspection and brake repairs. - Not imedialty clear that this it refers to the car, consider changing "it" to "the car".
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• Lynn called his victory in LMGTE Pro "the biggest win of his career" - you're quoting him, so it's "the biggest win of my career", alternative would be to remove the quotation marks.
  SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Post-race

• Menezes called sharing second overall podium finish was "something special". - confusing sentence. I think that "Menezes called sharing second overall "something special"." is fine.
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• The Buemi quote makes it sound like all three of them had won for the third time. The source suggests its Toyota who get the big trophy ("On Toyota's third win in a row, he added: "It’s amazing. We get to keep the big trophy now, when you win three times. That was the main target."") I suggest changing it to "It's amazing. We [Buemi and Nakajima/Toyota] get to keep the big trophy now, when you win three times. That was the main target."
  SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Changed MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Other sugestions to improve article

I'm probably being excessivly picking (so feel free to ignore), but:

Lead

• [[COVID-19 pandemic in France|COVID-19 pandemic]] is a possible WP:EGG issue.
  • Done MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• "following almost 33 seconds later" doesn't sound right. Perhaps "finishing almost 33 seconds later", or "following almost 33 seconds behind"?
  SSSB (talk) 11:31, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Rewritten MWright96 (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Qualifying

• Is it worth adding sortability to the results table? Mostly for the benefit of seeing the grid and quali (non-hyperpole) times in numerical order.
  • Having difficulty with this at the moment MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Don't worry about it, it isn't necessary to pass.
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
• If there is a reason why the #82 and 52 cars were lifted, this should be mentioned. I had a quick search and couldn't find anything...
  SSSB (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
  • There are no further details MWright96 (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Garage 56

The text here says that Garage 56 allows for a 56th entry, but there are 62 in total, so this is a little confusing as they are actually the 62nd entry. I suggest something like:"The ACO intended to continue the Garage 56 concept, started in 2012. Garage 56 allows an additional to test new technologies at the race." With the possibility of a note explaining that the origin of the name is that, in 2012, this additional team would have been the 56th.
SSSB (talk) 13:45, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

• Done both MWright96 (talk) 14:39, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Y
    SSSB (talk) 10:04, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Reference check

• A source is needed to confirm that the innovation car is LMP2. The PDF source that shows the initial entry list doesn't count it as an LMP2 (it shows 24 LMP2s, and does not include the innovation car in that list).
  SSSB (talk) 13:45, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Amended text MWright96 (talk) 14:39, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Y
      SSSB (talk) 10:04, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

No other problems detected, passing. Congrats
SSSB (talk) 10:04, 5 July 2021 (UTC)